An Interview with...a Church Planter - 4 - David Jones, Smiltene, Latvia

In the last two posts I've shared news from Capital cities that border the Baltic sea.  In fact all three entries so far have been big, bustling cities.  They've also all been started in the last few years, if that.  

This time we are staying in the Baltics, but hearing from David, who is in a small town called Smiltene, which is in Latvia.  It's also moved on from the church plant phase and is already a church in its own right.

I first spoke with David through Skype from our then home in Russia.  In the last six months I've had the pleasure of meeting him in person, both in central and southern Estonia and also once in Riga.

So this is what David had to say;

Tell us a little about the city you meet in? 

Smiltene is a small town of 6,000 in a rural community serving probably an additional 3,000. Smiltene is something of an economic oasis in an area which is generally struggling economically. Christianity is dominated by religion and legalism with particular emphasis on Lutheranism.

Some people might look at church planting and feel they have no idea what to do - what would you say to help them? 
There are many good opportunities to investigate, especially within Newfrontiers. Go visit a church plant in another country for your summer holiday. Hangout with church planting types. Chat to your church leadership team and local apostle. You can successfully spend several years gain experience and seeking God about your future potential church planting call. Nynke from Holland came to us twice for a couple of weeks, using her annual leave from her work. Then for five months (unpaid leave) before deciding to move out here. Ilze and I spent a short week with her church and leadership team in Holland.

Called to just church plant, or called to a specific city - or both? And does it matter? 
I think it does matter.  You need to know your calling. If it is to church planting in general, that is no problem. If it is to a specific geographical location, nation, people group then that too is important to know. The call will vary with different individuals.

How old were you when you planted your first church? 
Thirty eight. 

Are you finished yet? 
No.

If you have planted into another culture and language, talk through some of the issues and experiences you've come across so far? 
Personally for me;
• Language. I am / was(?) too afraid to make mistakes and thus, was very diligent at cracking trying to use what I had learnt. So, it took several years for me to get into the ‘snowball effect’, i.e. the more you use what you have, the more you learn. The more you learn the more you use what you have.
• Culture. Not adapting to Latvian culture but, not wanting to simply import British Christianity or indeed, even simply Newfrontiers churchianity.
• Religion and legalism. They love over here. Sadly, after The Wall came down the churches (in general) didn’t particularly embrace the new found freedom. Many are still very legalistic. Anything not Lutheran or Catholic is still treated with some suspicion. Pentecostalism is still considered a ‘new’ religion. So, what hope for charismatic who have only been around a few decades? Not being ordained, not having a ‘real’ building etc all cause lots of people a real problem out here. Those battles were fought in the UK in the 60’s and 70’s. In real terms those battles are still only just being started out here.

And what language are you doing your gatherings in?
Our church is a Latvian speaking church. However, I do still preach via a translator.

In Newfrontiers, we talk about building on an Apostolic and Prophetic foundation - how has that been seen through your situation?
We have strong links with Mike Betts out of Lowestoft who is apostolic and Keith Hazel a recognised prophet. Both have visited us here in Smiltene. Mike will revisit occasionally but in general now the ‘hands-on’ work is via Norman Blows in Bury St. Eds.

Calling verses Gifting - where do you stand? 
I think both are important but, in the end if you know you are called you will have the resilience and determination to see it through the tough times. Gifitng is important but, you can play to your gifts and gather / hire in others to cover the areas you are not so strong on. You can learn a lot too. You can’t hire in or learn calling.

What is the role of internationals (ie non natives) in the life of a new church plant? 
It can be very helpful and also a hindrance.
Helpful in that you may have people who think like you and have similar values.  Hindrance in that locals may end up looking to / deferring too the people from ‘the west’.  When we were in Bindure in Zimbabwe Piet Drayer had two Sunday services in the same building. A mixed one and a blacks only one. It was the only way he could find to get black Zimbabweans to run Sunday meetings without simply deferring by default to whites. It can be a bit like that here between Latvians and westerners.

What challenges have you had to over come? 
Language. Suspicion. Passivity amongst local men. Endemic dishonesty.

What challenges remain? 
Language. Raising up men to take initiative and to help move them into positions of authority. Huge problem in former Soviet Union with passivity amongst men.

Can people still move to join you? 
Yes.

How can someone pray for you and your church?
• To make real inroads into the adult male community
• Strong leadership team of Latvian men to be built
• Home / midweek groups hosted and run by Latvian church members

Do you need a team to go church planting? 
Yes, I think you do. We built one with locals once we were here. I would say that the ‘gathering’ stage is crucial.

Is outside financial support vital for church planting? 
Vital no! But it really helps and takes off some of the strain of the first year when things are small, struggling and (in a different culture/nation) busy with language and cultural issues.

What other ways are there that you've come across?
Being in a small town in a poor (relatively speaking for Europe) country, we have had to have some outside financial support for larger projects. E.G. Alpha courses, distribution of food and clothing to the community.

What advantages does having financial support for at least the first year have in the life of a church plant?
It really helps to take off a lot of the pressure especially in the first year in a different country when language and cultural issues are having to be dealt with.

What one piece of advice would you give to someone feeling called to plant a church somewhere? 
Know that you know that you know that you are called.

Thank you so much for sharing this David.

David is part of The Father's House, in Smiltene, Latvia.

Contact information:

Tel. 00 371 64772905
Mob. 00 371 29828937
Email: dij@apollo.lv
Church website: http://draudzetevamajas.lv/en


Series so far:

1 - The Hague, Netherlands
2 - Stockholm, Sweden
3 - Riga, Latvia

An Interview...with a Church Planter - 2 - Phil Whittall, Stockholm, Sweden

In the second part of this Church Planting series we're hearing from Phil Whittall, who now lives with his family in Stockholm, the Capital of Sweden, having moved from the UK last year.

Our link to this church plant actually started through Phil's mother-in-law, Kate Duncan, who is also now out in Stockholm.  While based in Oxford for the birth of Anya in 2010, I was given use of a desk in the office of Emmanuel Church Oxford, where Kate was then working part time.  Returning to St Petersburg, several months later we heard back from Kate that she would be moving to Stockholm in 2012, and would therefore be a Baltic neighbour with us in St Pete's - by then, we had heard God speaking to us about Tallinn, so I was able to reply to her with a yes, we were to be neighbours - but even closer than she thought!  Tallinn is wonderfully located between some awesome cities - west of St Petersburg, our sending church.  East of Stockholm, just south of Helsinki and north of Riga.  In this series I will be sharing answers from guys in Riga and St Petersburg, and hopefully from Helsinki in the future as well.

At the last Brighton conference in 2011, we had a little time with Phil and some of his team in a local pub one night.  And through emails since, we've managed to chat a little.  Being a largely unchurched part of the world, relationships with other like-minded people in neighbouring capital cities at the same stage as us, brings strength and encouragement, which is extremely valuable.

Phil has also been a great help so far with my novel Cherry Picking (shameless plug I know, but this is how Phil has encouraged me!)  His background has been in publishing, so in this area too he has a lot of helpful advice, which I've been so grateful for.

So, that's the intro over - let's see what he has to say;

Tell us a little about the city you meet in?

Stockholm is the capital of Sweden and with around 2 million people is the largest city in Scandinavia and only St Petersburg is bigger in the Baltic region. It's a very highly developed, well run and beautiful city, with a currently healthy and growing economy. It's a joy to live here but it is also a city largely without God. Only around 1-1.5% of the population attend church on any given Sunday (compared to around 4-5% nationally). In terms of a mission field that puts it in the same category as countries like Japan, North Korea, Thailand, Mongolia and Iraq (according to Operation World).

Some people might look at church planting and feel they have no idea what to do - what would you say to help them?

I would say that was normal but not to get paralysed into inaction. Speak to leaders, investigate a place (if you know that), training (if you need that) and begin to orient your life now around the fact that one day it will be different. So save money, change the sorts of books you read...anything really

When did you know you were called to be a church planter?

About 12 years ago when I was asked by Martin Charlesworth who was leading the church I attended. He asked me 'would I lead a church plant?' and after praying about it, concluded that God was behind the question. 

 

How old were you when you planted your first church?

28 by the time we got as far as our first public Sunday meeting. But around 26 when that journey started.

Are you finished yet? 

No. Currently in Stockholm and fully expect that to be a church that raises up church planters for Sweden and the Scandinavian/Baltic region.

Called to just church plant, or called to a specific city - or both?  And does it matter?

No I don't think it matters. Some are called to lead, others are called to join in. The important thing is gaining the backing of those leading you so you can be equipped, released and sent out on mission. 

Having planted into another culture & language, talk through some of the issues and experiences you've come across so far? 

I think one of the big things is that it takes time so patience and a long-term perspective is crucial. Learning a language is one reason for that; even here in Stockholm where there are a high proportion of people able to speak English we want to be able to pray and communicate about Jesus in the heart language of this nation and that's Swedish not English. 

 

And what language are you doing your gatherings in? 

Swedish and English. We're not fluent yet so we're doing what we can and translating the rest. It's a bit of mish-mash right now.

In New Frontiers, we talk about building on an Apostolic and Prophetic foundation - how has that been seen through your situation?  

God has been gracious in speaking promises over us as a church and that gives us confidence in the future even if the interim steps are not yet crystal clear. The prophetic among us builds up, strengthens and helps equip us for the future reality God has for us. The apostolic helps provide the determination, perseverance and wisdom to break through the inevitable battles in whatever shape they come.

Calling verses Gifting - where do you stand?

Both would be great. God uses all sorts of people but church planting can be just hard work so gifting without the calling is probably more vulnerable than the other way around.

 

What is the role of internationals (ie non natives) in the life of a new church plant? 

Well, we're internationals so I hope it's a useful one! If you're planting into a city the chances are that will be a very multi-cultural context and part of the promise of the kingdom of God is to see people from north, south, east and west participate in the feast of the King. So there's a role for every native and non-native.

 

What challenges have you had to over come?

All of them! There are challenges of trusting God for provision for homes, finances, your children, a team, for salvation, for friendships, for new languages. You can arrive in a new place with all of those things up in the air and you have to trust God for everything, that's why the calling is key. 

 

What challenges remain?

We're not fluent in Swedish yet so we need to keep working hard at that. We want to see the lost saved, leaders equipped and released. We're only just beginning so there are plenty of challenges ahead of us. 

 

Can people still move to join you?

Of course!

 

How can someone pray for you and your church?

Pray for friendships and relationships. Churches start there both inside the church family and with others in the neighbourhood. We want our relationships to be fruitful for the kingdom of God.

 

Do you need a team to go church planting?

No but it helps. Sooner or later a team needs to be built that is essential, but you don't have to have a team to get going. 

 

How has moving to church plant with young children been?

So far it's been fun. Our eldest is 4 and youngest is 2, so they're at an age where they can pick up the language in a way that makes their parents jealous. Taking time to make sure your family move well is important, and so far it's gone well and we're grateful for that.

 

What challenges do you face with raise children in a 'foreign' setting?

Sweden is quite well known for it's liberal attitudes to pretty much everything and is like many developed nations highly consumeristic and individualistic. The gospel speaks against both those attitudes so that's very counter-cultural. Swedes are also quick to think people who are enthusiastic about their faith are cultish and no kid needs that label round their neck. But every culture poses challenges to Christian parents and this one is no different, the trick is to figure out where. 

 

Is outside financial support vital for church planting?  What other ways are there that you've come across?

It can obviously be a great advantage because moving countries can be expensive and language learning can eat into your work time. But in our area, for example there are over 500 IT companies from giants like Microsoft, Samsung and Ericsson to small start-ups so working and being in business is key for most people being able to move to a city.

  

What advantages does having financial support for at least the first year have in the life of a church plant?

The big one is the space it gives you to sort out the fundamental basics of life - accommodation, bank accounts, transport, doctors and to invest time into learning a language.

 

What one piece of advice would you give to someone feeling called to plant a church somewhere?

Go for it! Get yourself equipped in character and trained in gifts and make plans to get out of the boat.

Huge thanks Phil for so thoroughly answering these questions.

Phil is a part of the Stockholm Church Plant, Sweden.

Contacts:

Website: http://thesimplepastor.co.uk

Church Blog: http://stockholmchurch.wordpress.com/

Twitter: @simplepastor

Series so far:

1 - The Hague, Netherlands

An Interview...with a Church Planter - 1 - Chris Taylor, The Hague, Netherlands

So welcome to a brand new series on this blog that will come through the next few months, sometimes in between my usual updates on life in Tallinn.

I felt some time ago that I really wanted to put together a series of blogs looking at the area of church planting, and to actually get to hear from others doing that very thing, or about to start doing it!  And especially those doing it in a culture different from their own.

And over the last few years, since moving away myself to church plant first into St Petersburg, Russia, and now again in Tallinn, Estonia, I've had the honour of meeting quite a few men and women who themselves are on this exciting life adventure.

So last week I wrote to maybe a dozen or so of these guys.  I sent them a long list of questions and asked them to answer maybe 5, or more, talking from their experience in order to encourage and help others, help people pray for their situation, and maybe stir people to join them, or move to plant or join where God has called them to.

And though I won't necessarily publish them in the order I receive their replies, Chris Taylor was the first to reply, so well done Chris!

In this series I will give a little intro to the person and situation, for example how I met them, and may sometimes make comments if I see similar things being mentioned, and then will pull this series together with my own answers in the final post, when ever that will be!  So here we go!

I met Chris in what was a season of waiting, an 'in between' moment, for us both.  We were in the UK for the birth of Anya in the first half of 2010.  Chris, a South African, and his family were in Sidcup, England, working a year in the church before moving on to plant into The Hague.  So with some of my family also a part of New Community Church in Sidcup, we had a little bit of time together and have stayed in touch ever since.

So this is what he had to say;

Tell us a little about the city you meet in?

The Hague is a hugely diverse European city. Roughly half of the population is of 'foreign ethnicity'. It has some of the poorest neighbourhoods, and some of the richest neighbourhoods of any city in The Netherlands.

How old were you when you planted your first church?

31

When did you know you were called to be a church planter?

In my 20s. I began to get a passion for the local church in my early 20s. This grew to a desire to lead a church as I hit my mid 20s. Massively important though was the timing of when it actually happened being led by Apostolic leadership (I would have chosen to plant a couple of years earlier than I did but in hindsight,  I am so glad that the extra time that leadership over me recommended).

What language are you doing your gatherings in?

Predominantly in English, but with regular Dutch singing, welcoming and praying out in Sunday meetings, and Dutch in certain life groups. Because we want to reflect the demographic of the city, English has been a 'unifying' language. Roughly half of the church is Dutch, and half is of 'foreign ethnicity'!

Do you need a team to go church planting?

No...but it will be much, much, much more difficult (without team). Team supports, encourages, spreads the load, gives more diversity to gifting, and helps to attract more people. Great team is attractive, and gives a community nucleus.

Is outside financial support vital for church planting?

It depends on the context. We had a good size team of super quality people from the beginning so we were quite viable as a small church from the beginning. Also we wanted to plant a 'city church' (rather than something reaching a particular neighbourhood). Both of these reasons meant that giving us a grant was both a pretty good idea, and was something that was MASSIVELY helpful. The grant enabled me not to have to find a full time job, and meant that we could gain more speedy momentum. A different context, vision, and strategy could totally mean that financial support is less 'necessary'. Ultimately it is God who provides for church plants and not people, organisations, or grants!

Thank you again Chris for your answers!  Really helpful!

Chris is part of Redeemer International Church - The Hague

Contacts:

Email: chris@redeemerchurch.nl

Twitter: @ChrisTaylor10 

Website: www.redeemerchurch.nl

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